Home > New York Death Records > Genetic Tracing to my 2nd Great Grandfather?

Genetic Tracing to my 2nd Great Grandfather?

I’ve been doing genealogy for quite a while now, and I have the use of ancestry.com and have a lot of my genealogy listed out on Family Tree Maker. Well a certain part of my genealogy has had me stumped for a long while. My great, great grandfather, Sylvester Rufus Allen, I can find nothing on except that he married Faith Wilbur Ostrander in 1901 in Portsmouth, VA. She was born July 25, 1883 in Rensselaer County, New York and died June 01, 1960 in Portsmouth, VA. They had four kids. Ruth Louise Allen, my great grandmother (born October 30, 1903 in South Norfolk, VA (?)), Luther L. Allen (b. Abt. 1904 in Virginia), Richard Cline Allen (b. Abt. 1906 in Virginia) and Teresa Mae Allen (b. May 17, 1909 in Portsmouth, VA). I’ve looked at Ruth’s death certificate (she lived and died in Beaufort Co, NC) and it does confirm that her father was Rufus Allen (but it does not list where he was born). Aunt Tessie Roberts (Teresa Mae Allen) died in February 1997 in Troy, Rensselaer County, NY. My hope is that someday I can go to NY and find her death certificate and see if it tells something new about Rufus. (ancestry.com doesn’t have some death certificates on there, especially not new ones).

I have a hunch though, that there’s a possibility that Rufus Allen immigrated from either Ireland or England (or is the son or grandson of immigrants). I have no other relatively close ancestors that immigrated (closest would be like 7th great grandparents), so my question is, would a DNA blood test confirm that I have close Irish or English blood in me and kind of give me a hint as to where the Allen’s come from? I can find no records of a Rufus Allen in Virginia, North Carolina or New York and he died around 1916 or so (so I’m told) and he married in 1901 so the only census that I’d be able to find both Rufus and his wife, Faith in would be the 1910 census; which I conveniently can find no record of with them in it.

DNA tests themselves with not tell you from what countries your ancestors immigrated. They can be helpful in many cases in allowing you to match yourself with others’ family trees.

Y DNA is passed from father to son. In other words you get Y from your father, his father, his father and so on. If Sylvester Rufus Allen is in your direct paternal line you have a chance of making a match with other family trees that can help you discover his origins.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from mother to both sons and daughters but only the daughters pass it on to their children. You got your Mitochondrial from your mother, her mother, her mother and so on.

Autosomal which you get 50-50 from both parents. However, when you get back to your grandparents it will not be 25-25-25-25. You got 50% from your paternal grandparents and 50% from your maternal grandparents but what you inherited will not be an even breakdown between grandmother and grandfather on both sides of your family. How you inherited this bias will not be how your siblings inherited it unless you have an identical twin.

Y & Mitochondrial are used in genealogy for people to match themselves to other family trees. However, they represent a very tiny part of your DNA and a very tiny part of your total ancestry. You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents and it doubles up each generation you go back. For instance if you get back to your 16 great great grandparents, having both Y & Mitochondrial tested would leave out 14 of them.

It is a more complicated to use Autosomal for genealogy purposes. Now, there is one company that will take your Autosomal DNA and match you with population groups throughout the world. But this will not prove the origin of your great great grandfather. The same DNA crosses racial, national and ethnic boundaries. There are no pure races, nationalities or ethnicities. DNATribes will give you your top 20 matches in descending order.

http://www.DNATribes.Com

Now another option for you is a copy of a social security number application for one of his children. The 2 I had ordered for someone had the names of both parents, including mother’s maiden name and their places of birth. Social Security didn’t start until January 1, 1935. The index begins for deaths around the mid 1950s. Now I have been told and I have found it to be true that if a person was not drawing social security at time of death and on their own social security number that they will not be on the index.
Two I found that this did not apply to were a couple of elderly people who had to get Medicaid. They had never put into Social Security or drew Social Security benefits but they had to get a Social Security number in order to get Medicaid. The dates of death on both were about a week off.

Rootsweb(free site) has the Social Security Death Index. Even though there is a space for the social security number, you don’t necessarily need it as long as you put the name in as they were on social security. Once you find a person if you click on SS-5 letter to the right it will pull up a letter that all you need to do is put your return address on it and attach a $27 check.

I believe a copy of a social security number application is more reliable. The applicant himself/herself gave the information on his/her parents. A death certificate often relies upon a widow or widower giving that info on their inlaws or one of the children giving the information on their grandparents under very stressful conditions.

  1. Laoshu Laoshi
    June 14th, 2010 at 16:03 | #1

    A DNA test could tell you where your both your female and male family lines originate. Your mitochondrial DNA can tell the area where the oldest female in your family line is on your mother’s side. Your Y chromosome can tell you where the oldest male in your family line on your father’s side is from. That does not mean that you will actually learn the origins of your grandfather though. Your father’s family line could have started anywhere and then settled in Ireland or England sometime in the recent past.

    I thought I was part Irish, only to find out that that part of the family was from Denmark. They first went to England, then Ireland, and finally to America (British colonies at the time). All before the 1700s started.
    References :

  2. Shirley T
    June 14th, 2010 at 16:22 | #2

    DNA tests themselves with not tell you from what countries your ancestors immigrated. They can be helpful in many cases in allowing you to match yourself with others’ family trees.

    Y DNA is passed from father to son. In other words you get Y from your father, his father, his father and so on. If Sylvester Rufus Allen is in your direct paternal line you have a chance of making a match with other family trees that can help you discover his origins.

    Mitochondrial DNA is passed from mother to both sons and daughters but only the daughters pass it on to their children. You got your Mitochondrial from your mother, her mother, her mother and so on.

    Autosomal which you get 50-50 from both parents. However, when you get back to your grandparents it will not be 25-25-25-25. You got 50% from your paternal grandparents and 50% from your maternal grandparents but what you inherited will not be an even breakdown between grandmother and grandfather on both sides of your family. How you inherited this bias will not be how your siblings inherited it unless you have an identical twin.

    Y & Mitochondrial are used in genealogy for people to match themselves to other family trees. However, they represent a very tiny part of your DNA and a very tiny part of your total ancestry. You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents and it doubles up each generation you go back. For instance if you get back to your 16 great great grandparents, having both Y & Mitochondrial tested would leave out 14 of them.

    It is a more complicated to use Autosomal for genealogy purposes. Now, there is one company that will take your Autosomal DNA and match you with population groups throughout the world. But this will not prove the origin of your great great grandfather. The same DNA crosses racial, national and ethnic boundaries. There are no pure races, nationalities or ethnicities. DNATribes will give you your top 20 matches in descending order.

    http://www.DNATribes.Com

    Now another option for you is a copy of a social security number application for one of his children. The 2 I had ordered for someone had the names of both parents, including mother’s maiden name and their places of birth. Social Security didn’t start until January 1, 1935. The index begins for deaths around the mid 1950s. Now I have been told and I have found it to be true that if a person was not drawing social security at time of death and on their own social security number that they will not be on the index.
    Two I found that this did not apply to were a couple of elderly people who had to get Medicaid. They had never put into Social Security or drew Social Security benefits but they had to get a Social Security number in order to get Medicaid. The dates of death on both were about a week off.

    Rootsweb(free site) has the Social Security Death Index. Even though there is a space for the social security number, you don’t necessarily need it as long as you put the name in as they were on social security. Once you find a person if you click on SS-5 letter to the right it will pull up a letter that all you need to do is put your return address on it and attach a $27 check.

    I believe a copy of a social security number application is more reliable. The applicant himself/herself gave the information on his/her parents. A death certificate often relies upon a widow or widower giving that info on their inlaws or one of the children giving the information on their grandparents under very stressful conditions.
    References :

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