Mormons: If Jesus Christ appeared in the Americas wouldn’t it have been the second coming?
Mormons declare that Jesus Christ came to the Americas around 32 C.E. amongst other claims that were completely appalling. The Book of Mormon states that it is comparable to the Bible, yet Joseph Smith also states that the Book of Mormon itself is the most correct scripture in the world…
1) Again, Jesus Christ appeared to the Native Americans around 32 C.E. which was after his crucifixion, death, and resurrection according to Christian belief. Now, if Jesus Christ told his disciples that the next time he would appear to the world again would be Judgment Day then why would he go to the Americas and pretty much do almost exactly what he had done in the New Testament? Sounds like forgery, seeing as the Native Americans also have no record of Jesus’ existence prior to the Spanish Invasion.
2) Mormons also claim that the Native Americans were once Jews who had sailed to around Central America, who were the Nephites. The Lamanites were descendants of Lehi whom God had punished by turning their skins red (or blackened their skins) because of their wickedness, these are supposedly the Native Americans we know today.
Short story of the feud between these two, the Lamanites wiped out the Nephites save for one, Moroni who had hidden the golden plates (common myth – they were made of different metals) to which Joseph Smith Jr. had translated using seer stones had identified the language written on the plates as "reformed-Egyptian" (false writing, never existed).
Since the study of DNA, scientists tested the genes of the Native Americans to see if they had ancestors, and they did, they were the North-Eastern Asians who had crossed from modern day Russia to Alaska using the Bering Strait. A land bridge that was at the time above sea level. That concludes future arguments for that.
So if the Book of Mormon claims to be comparable to the Christian Bible, and Jesus appeared to the Americas it would have been the second coming.
Then…why are we still here??
Why is everyone assuming I didn’t write this on my own? I sound the same as much as I do in all my other Q&A’s, what’s the deal?
Miss Stevie II, nice! XP I was also thinking, that First and Last could mean many things: First and Last son of God for example. My thought 😛
When in Revelation it says not to add, change, or take away anything from the book it’s talking about Revelation itself. The Christian Bible wasn’t put together until way after Revelation was written. It’s just simply stating Revelation on it’s own, not the whole Christian Bible.
Servant of Jesus Christ, satin is a type of cloth. I have a very low tolerance when it comes to spelling. I doubt SATAN has an influence in the Book of Mormon, and the King James Version isn’t the "only correct text of Christianity". It’s just the one you were brought up with therefore, it seems more iconic because anything else you hear or see almost sounds alien.
To those who had their answers with low ratings I deeply apologize for the negligence people have brought on you, especially by those of the Mormon faith.
Another thing to the Mormons claiming the BoM as historical here’s something to consider: If Jesus came to the Native Americans, why isn’t he in their mythology? Why was he not mentioned in ANY of their teachings?
Jesus appeared to Paul, why not add that to the list…
I doubt Jesus will ever go America. If he did return he may send people there instead.
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Did you really write all that?
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I hate to tell the Mormons that Jesus Christ never came to America.
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just proves that anyone can make up their own religion
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I studied under the LDS for a short time.
This is a good point you make.
My concern was that the Book of Mormon appeared to be a continuation of the Bible.
If you read the last book in Revelations, it says not to change, delete, or add to this book. I was always concerned that the Book of Mormon was an addition to the Bible.
However, that being said, I am sure the Bible as been "altered" otherwise God wouldn’t have given such a warning.
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good job copy-pasting
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Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith, why not add that to the list? lol…
The phrase Second Coming is not used in the Bible. It comes from the life or incarnation of Jesus of Nazareth as being his first coming to earth. Some Christians refer to the Second Coming as the last coming because of scripture referring to him as being the "First and the Last", "The Beginning and End", "The Alpha to Omega", and others do not define it by number, highlighting Christ’s coming as an ongoing process. "End Days" refers to that time just prior to his return.
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I love that you recognize that Revelation is talking about the actual book of revelation! It doesn’t seem like a lot of people get that. I would say the answer to the first part of your question is in the question. You say that "Jesus Christ told his disciples that the next time he would appear to the world again would be Judgment Day." He didn’t appear to the whole world when he appeared in the Americas. I think when he comes for the Second Coming everyone will know….the whole world, not just the people of one country or nation. So I think it’s possible that he has appeared to the people in the Americas. He could have appeared in tons of different places. The Bible was written by people living in or near the same land….so I imagine the people covering the rest of the earth could have had prophets leading them and Christ appearing to them too. Maybe that’s far fetched, but it doesn’t seem so to me!
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No, it would be fulfilling the "John 10: 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
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Nope. Good thought though. The visit of Jesus Christ tothe inhabitants of the ancient Americas was for a different purpose. Just like Jesus Christ appearing to Mary Magdelene at his tomb after his resurrection was not his "second coming." Nor was Christ’s resurrected visit to the 11 apostles, including Thomas later on. Nor was his visit to the 500 saints…..you probably are getting the point. Christ’s visits here outlined above are ALL mentioned in the BIBLE. Including, as Alissa points out, he visit to the Americas when Christ said, "other sheep."
When he comes again in his glory, we will know and there will be no doubt, as "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess" that he is the Christ.
His visit to the Americas was to teach his gospel to ALL of his children as he promised.
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Lifelong Mormon
Do you actually understand what the "Second Coming" is?
It is when Christ will come to rule and reign over the whole earth. Much has to be accomplished before then…
He came to the American continent because he had "other sheep, not of this fold" who he needed to bring the gospel to. Christ visited many people after He was resurrected… should that have been his "second coming"… no, because there were and are many more people who need to come to this earth.
We don’t "claim" that all Native Americans are decendant from Jews. We claim a group of people came to the American continent, probably in Central America, who had left Jerusalem.
DNA can’t prove or disprove anything because you can’t go back to Lehi and see if those people have the same DNA.
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Eternally LDS
Based on your logic the vision Paul saw also would qualify as the second coming.
You’ve got other problems:
1 – The Spanish Invasion was easy as many of the Natives thought that they were from the bearded white God who promised he would return. There are also temples of the descending God in Mexico and ample evidence that there was a belief in a God who fits the description of Christ perfectly.
2 – Your DNA science is based on a dozen assumptions which are wrong. A few being:
– There is no "Jewish" DNA marker anyway (there’s nothing that even could have been found in DNA to call proof)
– There are traces of common European and Semitic DNA in native tribes
– There is no calibration point
– Semetic DNA has Asian roots
– There were others in the Americas concurrent to the Nephites
– How do you test the DNA of a group that’s long dead?
The conclusions are rather juvenile as a close look shows a study that couldn’t have possibly produced any results other than what it did since the lack of a specific Jewish marker made it impossible to be successful in the study.
I would remind you that DNA also has it’s imperfections. Matching a person to a crime scene is very accurate, following populations is inaccurate. 20/20 did an episode where they traced an African-American woman’s DNA to show her origins. 4 Companies gave 4 different results which literally ranges all over Africa while each claiming 99.99% accuracy.
As you seem versed in the bible, based on our current understanding of DNA Noah and Adam didn’t exist either. So DNA isn’t what you want in proving another religion false because if it’s perfect enough to prove another false then you’ve also proven your own religion false as well.
You also make an argument that "reformed-Egyptian" doesn’t exist. That’s another spoon-fed lie you’ve bought hook line and sinker.
Reformed Egyptian is a derivative of Egyptian. Therefore if Egyptian exists reformed Egyptian also existed. Granted it wouldn’t have existed in the middle east, but we do have characters from Demotic which were used in the delta and in Egyptian trade that have many similarities to the characters copied from the Book of Mormon.
In the end there is no conclusive link to the characters. Again it’s impossible to chase the conclusions of linguistic study from a group destroyed 1600 years ago.
You’re smart enough to be versed in the bible enough to know how laughable the "add and take away" argument is; I give you credit for that.
Assuming that your question is sincere, you should do some pro-Mormon research on this topic.
You’ve done some interesting thinking but have a few incorrect conclusions.
Remember the second coming isn’t a visit, it’s to rule and reign. There was a visitation to the Nephites that was similar to the visitations in the bible. Remember Christ appeared to many groups as recorded in Acts and spent 40 days with them.
We’re awaiting the 2nd Coming like all others.
People try to make a big deal out of the fact that non-Mormon scholars don’t accept the Book of Mormon as truth or plausible. Well guess what – non Judeo-Christian scholars don’t accept the bible as truth or plausible either. So once again the rocks they throw destroys your faith as well as ours if you accept their claims.
So one question back at you, have you attempted to read the Book of Mormon or do you judge it by it’s cover?
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You don’t have the proper perspective on the events that have and will transpire. His visit to the descendants of Lehi was still part of His first ministry, not his second. He told the Jews that other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Them also I must bring. The lost tribes of Israel including the people of America were among those to whom Jesus was referring. He told the Lehites that ye are they of whom I spoke that other sheep I have that are not of this fold. So He will not come again to the Jews, to whom He was speaking, until He lands on the Mount of Olives at the conclusion of the siege of Jerusalem. He will come in like manner as ye see Him depart. In other words they saw Him depart in a pillar of light and they shall see Him return in a similar pillar of light upon that same mount. That has not yet happened. That is the second coming to which He referred.
As for the wisdom of man, or the knowledge of man’s science concerning the people of America, it is flawed. Lean not upon the arm of flesh or make flesh thine arm. My wisdom is higher than man’s for man’s wisdom is foolishness to God. His thoughts and ways are higher than ours. I am convinced that we don’t know everything yet and that there is much yet to be revealed. I am sure that our questions will all be answered in the Lord’s own due time.
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LDS
I am still a little shook up about my avatar,
You did not need to publish a book, nobody is going to read all that crap, but your initial Q was funny LMAO!!!
There is however a number of ways to look at it as I am sure some have already pointed out.
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MM
I just love second comings =)
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There isn’t one professional scholar or scientist outside the LDS church who thinks the Book of Mormon could possibly be true – linguistics, genetics, history, anthropology, all prove it wrong.
The Book of Mormon reads like a fantasy novel written in 1830. It describes what people knew about the history of the Americas back then. It doesn’t come close to what we know now.
It says, for example, that they ate European foods like barley and wheat. In fact, they ate maize and squash. There are so many mistakes like that.
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Since the Native Americans have a knowledge of a white brother who promised to return to them, it is all together reasonable to believe this was Jesus Christ. Unless of course, you don’t believe in Christ.
The true Pahana is the "Lost White Brother" of the Hopi. Pahana or Elder Brother left for the east at the time that the Hopi entered the Fourth World and began their migrations. The Hopi say that he will return again and at his coming the wicked will be destroyed and a new age of peace will be ushered into the world. It is said he will bring with him a missing section of a sacred Hopi stone in the possession of the Fire Clan, and that he will come wearing red. Traditionally, Hopis are buried facing eastward in expectation of the Pahana who will come from that direction.
The legend of the Pahana seems intimately connected with the Aztec story of Quetzalcoatl, and other legends of Central America. This similarity is furthered by the liberal representation of Awanyu, the horned or plumed serpent, in Hopi and other Puebloan art. This figure bears a striking resemblance to figures of Quetzacoatl, the feathered serpent, in Mexico.
It seems the Hopi also teach that they arrived on this continent by crossing the ocean, not the Bering Straights.
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Jesus appeared to Paul, why not add that to the list…
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You are too contentious to even considering replying with a decent answer. Stop being so hostile and more Latter-day Saints will be happy to oblige with good answers.
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LDS
We assume you didn’t write this on your own, well maybe you wrote part of it as some of your own ideas. But a lot of this comes from anti-Mormon websites so it’s not your own ideas.
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LDS
He saw his OTHER sheep (it is in the Bible
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Mormonism falsely asserts that some of the ancient Jews migrted to America. But genetic analysis do not prove this. It has been shown by genetic markers that the Jews of Easten Europe, North Africa and Mediterranean are related through. This disproves that the ancient Americans were not related to the Jews.
You also have to remember that when the second coming occurs Christ will establish His kingdom in all of the earth and the Lion will lay down with the Lamb in Isaiah. This has not happened. You are right that the book of Mormon is a forgery.
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NATGEO had a show on once where mummies had pot int heir DNA/rags or whatever, this completely bemused the sciencetist because the only place ot get pot from was North america or south america, so the egyptians had already been to the US before th e vikings or colunbus to get high. LOL, This really puts a strain on t he BofM story to, there were prpbably people here before the allegded nephites/laminites came here.
so if your mormon, Jesus was born thats the first time he was here, the he appeared to the laminites, then he appeared to Joseph smith and then he is suppose to come again for the fourth time to everyone.
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ce=christian era
bce=before christian era
ad = anno domini = year of our lord
bc = before christ
sorry, I hate it when people use CE and BCE – it seems such a cop out pedanting politically correct farce because it’s still reconed off christs birth, and I second Josh’s answers…..
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lds
It’s also an interesting point that the Book of Mormon speaks of travelling on horseback in the Americas in the pre-columbian (incas etc) period. However, the horse is not indigenous to the New World and did not arrive to the Americas until the Spaniards brought the first horses in the 16th-17th century. Another point they seem to miss.
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The Book of Moroni is a book of Satin who counterfeits everything God dose.He has not changed in All of time. He is still saying to the world the same thing he said to Eve in the Garden "If God has said"
Man needs to wake up God in Various places tell us of the curse which will fall on people who try to add or take anything away from the Holy Bible which He gave and preserved for us. This is the King James Holy Bible.
It has in No way been Altered or Change from the Original texts and this has been verified through many studies .
Satin in Ezekiel addressed and Jesus rightly describes him as appearing as an Angel of Light. Is that not how Moroni is described by Joseph Smith ,who if he was a true spiritual leader would have recognized this when satin appeared to him.
Joseph Smith was thrown out of His religion and started this Heresy to hide his Infidelity to his wife and to God ! So he redefined his Religion to suite his sin and made a new one based on a book from Satin!
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The Holy Bible and History of the United States!