Do you agree/disagree Jehovahs Witness woman sues state of Kansas?
medical welfare to pay for bloodless care for liver transplant? This is a justification of the JW I disagree with completely. Suing is wrong unless you have been wronged terribly. This woman is asking welfare to go above and beyond for her alone. Any JW will tell you they try to be good neighbors. This is putting a money burden on tax payers and that is just with the lawsuit alone and not even if it does get paid for. I wonder how many people could get medical care with what she is getting from welfare medical benefits. This is a prime example of a JW bending the rules for themselves. She can move to another state or even Canada rather than cost Kansas the money she has. She probably gets more Kansas welfare than what other states would offer. or else she does not want to be inconvienced by moving.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2815490/appeals-court-hears-case-of-jehovahs.html
TOPEKA | A Kansas appeals court poked and prodded Wednesday, but kept returning to the same question.
What compelling reason did Kansas have for refusing to pay for a woman’s request — based on her religious faith — to undergo a bloodless liver transplant that could be done only outside the state?
The answer could decide whether 64-year-old Mary Stinemetz, a Jehovah’s Witness from Hill City, Kan., can replace her failing liver that has left her near death after 20 years of illness.
“Don’t you have some type of compelling state interest to deny this, and what is that compelling interest?” Judge Stephen D. Hill asked the state’s lawyer, Brian Vazquez.
Hill’s comments came during a nearly hourlong session of the Kansas Court of Appeals, which generally allots about 30 minutes to hearings.
Stinemetz contends the state is violating her religious freedom under the U.S. Constitution and the Kansas Bill of Rights, which guarantee the right to worship “according to the dictates of conscience.”
The state is willing to allow Stinemetz to get a liver transplant, paid for by Medicaid, at the University of Kansas Hospital. But she would have to compromise her Jehovah’s Witness principles, because she would receive a blood transfusion, which she believes violates God’s law.
Stinemetz could undergo bloodless transplant surgery in Omaha, Neb., but Kansas is refusing to pay for the out-of-state procedure when a transplant is readily available at KU.
Stinemetz’s case rests partly on U.S. Supreme Court precedent from 1963, which holds the government needs a compelling state interest to justify infringing on someone’s right to freely exercise religion.
Vazquez acknowledged there was little, if anything, in the court record to show a compelling state interest. However, he contended that a 1990 Supreme Court decision from Oregon eliminated the need to show a compelling interest.
In that case, the court ruled that government could adopt laws that might burden someone’s religion as long as the law was neutral and didn’t target a specific religious faith.
The court is expected to issue a ruling later
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2815490/appeals-court-hears-case-of-jehovahs.html#ixzz1L8fIjZly
@Paint a Picture-Welfare is in fact probably better than my private insurance which I pay a lot of money for and then pay more for taxes so she can get an operation that will save her life. There are so many people in between who will die b/c they have neither option and this woman is costing Kansas more by filing lawsuits for a bogus scripture interpretation. I am always curious why the JW’s do not comment when its a story about one of their own abusing the tax system. Why isn’t her brothers and sisters from Kingdom Hall assisting her with money? Because people like us will continue to pay taxes and do the christian thing of helping those less fortunate.
Medical Welfare and do the clean hard working diligent members of the Watch Tower Groups called Kingdom Halls have any sort of benefits or donations or drives to help one of their own?
I think not.
The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society only lines it’s own coffers and throws needy members on to the public system they refuse to show any social obligation toward.
The Watch Tower calls all governments under the influence of Satan and the Demons and yet the members sure do enjoy the benefits of being an American Citizen
The Watch Tower Demonizes all government whether this is the US government or not and the members can not salute the flag show support to any cause but the cause of The Watch Tower which is to buy and pass out literature and recruit new members who will also support the mega-corporation of the realty and publishing group called the Watch Tower.
Though
members can take all the money and benefits that are offered.
_______
(A Watch Tower twist Jehovah’s Witnesses do not know)
(The Watch Tower recently booted out long time workers that earn 14 dollars a month stipend or the equivalent and paid no taxes – some who never held a job and do not qualify for any government benefits. 55 – 60 – 65 years old – no working history – 0 taxes paid in their life and out on their backsides.)
_______
The Watch Tower again teaches their followers they may have no social obligation to the body whole of the people of the United States such as military or alternative service.but will sue at the drop of a dime to get benefits from the same government.
At what point do responsible citizens say enough to the Watch Tower and its drones?
I doubt Jehovah’s Witnesses taxes in a three state area are enough to pay for one operation like this – Jehovah’s Witnesses are the lowest educated and have lowest income of all major religions.
And yes 7 million members and associates of the Watch Tower make the Watch Tower one of the major religions yet it exerts to the degree it may absolute control over it followers.
Jehovahs Witnesses are only anti government until something is in it for them.
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So if I follow a religion that only allows me to get a wart removed on a tropical island, they should pay for a trip to Hawaii for me? Or would they infringe on my religion and say I should just get the wart removed at the local doctor and pay my own way to Hawaii?
I would think just paying the amount it would cost the state of Kansas if a normal transplant were done in state and letting her pay any extra for the special religious needs would be fair to all.
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I think she has a good argument. Freedom of religion is nothing to be trifled with.
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Doesn’t she know that the liver is a large organ and filters the blood? It will most likely be infused with blood when it is transplanted into her. I can’t see the difference in a transplanted liver and a blood transfusion. In both cases she would be end up taking into her body foreign blood. I agree about the transplant, but I won’t go so far as to put her down for using welfare. For some people Medicaid is their only hope for their health issues.
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Hi there..
Well, the state is failing to provide a necessary medical procedure without resorting to a high-risk method of surgery, despite the associated dangers (recent contamination of blood supplies with HIV and hepatitis C).
As the state still uses this high-risk form of surgery and apparently has no mechanism in place to provide a safer alternative, she is correct in suing for better medical attention elsewhere.
"Why isn’t her brothers and sisters from Kingdom Hall assisting her with money? Because people like us will continue to pay taxes and do the christian thing of helping those less fortunate."
There are over one million JW’s in the USA paying tax. That covers her medical bills, so your concern is unnecessary.
Your personal opinion on "bogus scipture interpretation" is nothing more than your personal opinion, and as such does not dictate US health policy, neither does it invalidate God’s command "to abstain from.. blood." (Acts 15:20)
Hope that helps.
Edit..
Pile: "Now that Jehovahs Witnesses have stopped disfellowshipping or disassociating for blood transfusions, there is no re4ason she needs to have bloodless surgery."
Unless of course your information happens to be false, which it is.
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Now that Jehovahs Witnesses have stopped disfellowshipping or disassociating for blood transfusions, there is no re4ason she needs to have bloodless surgery.
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Medical Welfare and do the clean hard working diligent members of the Watch Tower Groups called Kingdom Halls have any sort of benefits or donations or drives to help one of their own?
I think not.
The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society only lines it’s own coffers and throws needy members on to the public system they refuse to show any social obligation toward.
The Watch Tower calls all governments under the influence of Satan and the Demons and yet the members sure do enjoy the benefits of being an American Citizen
The Watch Tower Demonizes all government whether this is the US government or not and the members can not salute the flag show support to any cause but the cause of The Watch Tower which is to buy and pass out literature and recruit new members who will also support the mega-corporation of the realty and publishing group called the Watch Tower.
Though
members can take all the money and benefits that are offered.
_______
(A Watch Tower twist Jehovah’s Witnesses do not know)
(The Watch Tower recently booted out long time workers that earn 14 dollars a month stipend or the equivalent and paid no taxes – some who never held a job and do not qualify for any government benefits. 55 – 60 – 65 years old – no working history – 0 taxes paid in their life and out on their backsides.)
_______
The Watch Tower again teaches their followers they may have no social obligation to the body whole of the people of the United States such as military or alternative service.but will sue at the drop of a dime to get benefits from the same government.
At what point do responsible citizens say enough to the Watch Tower and its drones?
I doubt Jehovah’s Witnesses taxes in a three state area are enough to pay for one operation like this – Jehovah’s Witnesses are the lowest educated and have lowest income of all major religions.
And yes 7 million members and associates of the Watch Tower make the Watch Tower one of the major religions yet it exerts to the degree it may absolute control over it followers.
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well, hey, as long as they’re not saluting the flag they might as well sue the heck out of it as well.
irony at it’s best.
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You have to be the biggest idiot on earth. Do you hear yourself?
I am a tax paying citizen and I honor the laws of the land in which I live just as Jesus and the 1st Christians. I pay to Caesar what is his. I honor the superior authorities. I refuse to allow someone to disrespect my sister for exercising her right to utilize what is rightly her due as a citizen of the country in which she lives. She wants a procedure that the state of Kansas refuses to provide. There are hundreds of bloodless surgery facilities around the world. Why? Because Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to compromise their stand on blood. You can continue to believe that "our interpretation" of the Bible is wrong if you like but in the end you will be the one with egg on your face. Since KU, which should be ashamed of itself because as a school it should always be ready to explore new avenues, refuses to compromise, she should? How idiotic is that? There are over 1 million tax paying Jehovah’s Witnesses in the US and their tax dollars are paying for her procedure and that Medicaid should be transferred to the hospital that will honor her choice in medical care. Everyone has the right to choose treatment. That is a right protected by the laws of the land. She is exercising her right as a citizen. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this stupidity.
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You said (quote) "I am always curious why the JW’s do not comment when its a story about one of their own abusing the tax system."
Please explain to me exactly what this woman has done to constitute "absuing the tax system?"
Thanks.
If she is a tx-paying citizen of this country, she is entitled to push for appropriate medical care. Fact.
Your comments (quote) "this woman is costing Kansas more by filing lawsuits for a bogus scripture interpretation" are irrelevant. As already stated, there are millions of JWs who WILLINGLY pay their taxes and obey the laws of the land, so please don’t try to insinuate that she is somehow taking money away from other tax payers, breaking the law, acting immorally, or stealing. She isn’t.
As for your opinion on our interpretation of scripture, how would YOU interpret it? We are commanded to ABSTAIN from blood (meaning to completely avoid it and not to take it in). The Bible is very clear on this subject.
Think about it.
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Proud Witness of Jehovah.
To the contrary, this woman has paid her taxes all her life. She is entitled to get whatever any other tax payer gets.
What bothers me and should all Kansas residents is what makes your state feel you are not entitled to proper health care? The state next door has it. Why are you not worthy?
Bloodless surgery is hardly for Jehovah’s Witnesses only. There are only one million in the entire country of the US. Most do not go in for surgery regularly. That means there are a great deal more people eager for this option. Considering how many mistakes are made in every hospital each year, many try to rule out as many opportunities for errors as possible. Just the pharmacy in one large hospital in my state generally takes out 5 at least every couple of years.
Then too the cost is less. Healing time is reduced. Hospital stays are reduced. Less risk of infections and of complications. Not to mention how much that free donated blood winds up costing on your bill $500.00.
So again I ask, why are Kansas citizens less deserving of proper care? Whether she sues or not, none of us knows the exact circumstances. Not even the pompous here who claim to know all, be all. Possibly this might force the state government to put in a bloodless program in Kansas. That would be a fine improvement for its citizens. She could turn out to be a hero.
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You said [quote] – " I am always curious why the JW’s do not comment when its a story about one of their own abusing the tax system."
"abusing the tax system"…?
That’s quite a slanderous statement you made there
You want to be careful that she doesn’t sue you for making such an accusation
It’s quite easy to find someone via their IP address you know, & Yahoo logs all IP addresses when you make an account [even if the information you give is false]
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There is obvious bias in your words, but you are entitled to your opinion.
But this is a court case, so let the court make its decision.
Jehovah’s Witnesses pay taxes like everyone else, and are entitled to the same government and legal remedies that everyone else is entitled to.
To hold otherwise is discrimination in itself.
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Common sense
If she is willing to fight for her life, based on "religious grounds", it seems that she might be forced into doing it to satisfy the WTBTS’ pocketbook, for if she did have the standard life-saving, state allocated and paid-for procedure, they could assist her with the expenditure, or disfellowship her for disobeying the faithful and discreet slave class at Bethel.
If she truly believes that she cannot take blood, based on what they (WTBTS) claim the Bible teaches,( and the Bible also has scripture that teaches us all to be "subject to the authorities"), her lawsuit becomes burdensome, and draws attention to a "belief" rather than the prescribed normal procedure that is being supplied by the taxpayer money of those who also salute the flag. This position of theirs is not how a "discreet" Christian would promote Christ, as it has nothing to do with HIM, and it attempts to use the legal system to save money for the sect.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that a negative result or legal decision here, is indicative of "persecution"….? Well, how can they be persecuted if they fight the very ones who are supposedly giving them this opportunity to "die for their beliefs?"
Where was the legal department in the Roman arenas?
The legal Department at WT is spending millions on fighting laws to make everyone pay for a false doctrine. The millions of dollars they paid out for their pedophile population’s deeds could have been used to give a surgery to this poor lady.
The self-righteous attitudes of the witnesses here demonstrate the ruthlessness of this sect, and their determination to dominate every sector of the earth. Prove the medical position as being scriptural, and take this matter to the Supreme Court, where it belongs. She will be dead by then.
If she KNOWS she will have a resurrection of "the righteous" why is she clinging to life at the expense and legal drainage of the "people"?
This is a travesty, when her very wealthy "Mother Corporation" could easily pay for this, and hundreds of other procedures for it’s "Bible-based" rejection of offered and standard medical procedures.
The Mennonites, Amish, and many other religious groups PAY for the needs of their people. Jehovah’s Witnesses challenge the laws, using legal pencil-sharpening to change the existing laws to save them MONEY.
This is a situation that derives attention, but this attention should be directed at the progenitors of the doctrinal positions that are creating the difficulty.
If it is true that the "inner-laws" on disfellowshipping have recently relaxed, it stands to reason that her position is weakened by that stance. The WTBTS needs to address this position with ALL of their members, Immediately!
If indeed the WT is re-considering it’s position on blood as becoming a "matter of personal conscience", it is basically saying to it’s members, "Your are on your own" as they did to the members in Mexico with the military service card during Malawi. This group uses it’s own brand of self-serving capitalistic finance planning to survive…this case is no different.
Porcelain, go ahead and sue me. This is a Provocative and a fighting stance being assumed by you, a footstep follower of Jesus Christ…Both sides of my face have already been slapped by your organization…bring your accusations on.
Or, she can die, like the 250,000 plus men women and Children before her who like sheep to the slaughter went to their glory.
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There are a lot of issues here to consider. Would it cost the state considerably more to get the medical aid she needs outside of state? Is she willing to try to come up with the difference if it is significant? Also would the state normally pay for treatment outside of Kansas if the operation was not treatable in Kansas, say a rare disease that is only treated in a few places and there are no other alternatives within the state? If they would indeed pay for such special circumstances out of state, why should this be any different?
While we may not identify with her because of what we may consider strange religious beliefs, consider the fact that you may not have a religious objection but you need a leg cut off to save your life from further infection. You don’t want your leg cut off unless you absolutely have to. The state you live in doesn’t provide the type of treatment that may allow you to keep both your leg and cure the disease, but there are reasonable places outside the state where the treatment can be handled successfully.
This JW and this person in this hypothetical situation are in the same situation. They are TAX PAYERS! Those officials are partly employed by her and the thousands of other JWs within that state. What prevents your INSURANCE COMPANY from doing the same thing if they feel your FEELINGS, BELIEFS, and DIGNITY aren’t worth considering? Why waste money, when all she has to do is consent to getting her leg cut off?
Sometimes we have to put our hatreds aside and consider the questions more objectively. Believe it or not JWs have aided more in the broadening of our understanding of civil rights than any other religion. What may seem foolish now, may indeed become common sense in years to come and hundreds, maybe thousands, will benefit from the expanded understanding.
Also consider, there have been numerous successful transplants of organs without blood transfusions. the more this practice becomes common, the greater the benefits for all citizens everywhere.
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