Death Records Now

James McKenna, Black Range Tales, an attack on woodcutters by Apaches in the Mimbres Valley, New Mexico. McKenna, gives the date as ‘the fall of 1872. All ten wood cutters were killed, along with two troopers from Ft. Cummings, and someone named Young, who might, or mightn’t have been military. McKenna describes him as ‘a farrier’.

Eight microfilm of the records from the US Archives have provided hints that McKenna’s dates might be wrong. That the attack might have been 1869, when a mail-carrier named Young was killed [farrier – carrier similarity might explain it]. Or it might be later, during the Victorio wars.

Muster rolls have been pesky, and thus far no reports of the deaths have emerged, though they ought to be in correspondence from Cummings.

A McGurk, Company C, 4th Regiment, under Captain Tucker, Fort Cummings, was one McKenna source.

1st microfilm order assumed Cummings rpts went to Craig. But most seems to be Leavenworth.

Any thoughts where to go next?
Thus far haven’t located McGurk, nor his unit, nor Captain Tucker. But there are a lot of gaps in the Cummings correspondence and reports. I need to find where else they might be located in the archives.

I’m wondering whether there’s some record set outside the US Archives containing the names and units of all military personnel who died on active duty.

I’m also wondering whether there are lists somewhere by state containing soldiers killed in each, where and when.

Or any other source you can think of that might help.

I’d like to do this by buying and searching microfilm, as opposed to hiring a private researcher in Washington.
Tiff a ding ding:

As I explained in the question, and again in the details, I’ve already ordered and recieved 8 microfilm spools from the US Archives. They don’t contain the information I’m looking for, but they do contain hints the information exists somewhere. Maybe somewhere else in the archives, such as in the Fort Leavenworth correspondence, or maybe in lists of killed in action, somewhere.
In my experience, genealogists are probably the best researchers remaining in the world today when it comes to ferreting out original, illusive facts and individuals. They provided me with invaluable information I’d never have found had I not found it through them.

Geneologists are doing, today, what historians used to do, but now merely look things up in books written by other historians who took the information from other books by other historians.

You folk who are doing this know more than anyone has any business knowing about how to do what people who call themselves historians ought to be doing.

Whether you can answer this question, or can’t, I tip my hat to you. You have my profound respect.
You folk have put me to work today!

Thanks so much.

I’ve just been through the Grant County burial records site…. Great site, by the way. Found a couple of candidates I’ll try to chase down various other ways. The blacksmith one was buried at Hatchita, which was a bit too far away. But William Young, died 1881, might be the man.

Fort Webster might be the place…. looks as though it was officially closed in 1866, but re-used as a temporary base during the 70s and 80s. I’m guessing there’s no cemetary there, but it was a lot closer to the sawmill where the wood cutters were working, than Fort Cummings. San Lorenzo, also might turn out to be pay dirt.

I thank you.

ANNALS OF OLD FORT CUMMINGS – NEW MEXICO 1967-68, I haven’t located, but I will.

[Some of you New Mexico types might have encountered my book on the Adams guy and his doings – you know who I mean]

Anyway, thunderstorm seems to be coming in up these mountains, so gonna have to unplug.

Thanks until
grannytoad – I still have that T-storm going, but I decided to come back and answer you at the risk of thunder & lightning.

Friend of mine’s been sniffing the back trail of McKenna for 25 years. He found Jason Baxter’s grave in the Gila, found the fabled ‘woman on the mountain’ – gonna be pics of it in his book, and a video available, up there right now doing more ground chasing on the Divide.

Shaffer’s folk are still in Pinos – got the museum up there. You might know them [poor old lady getting too decrepit to talk much anymore]. Anyway, my bud is trying to get his book out – Black Range Tales revisited, with pics of Baxter& McKenna, the grave, the woman, lots of other new stuff. But he can’t do everything, so I’m helping him a bit.

I was skeptical about McKenna when he first contacted me a few years ago… he made a believer of me with what he’s done.

Now it’s just nailing down corners… military records need finding if they can be found, that sort of thing.

Graci
Shaffer isn’t the one writing the book… dunno why I mentioned him, but I surely like his mom, or grandma.

But the old Shaeffer, Fort Cummings thing is a big piece of what might interest some, judging from how things are developing.

Ohhhhhh….we like a good challenge.

While the lamb is grilling, let’s see what we can figure out. I may have to leave you here and there to check the meat.

First question, have you checked out another book of the era called, "ANNALS OF OLD FORT CUMMINGS – NEW MEXICO 1967-68?" If so, did it give any clues?

OK, the first thing I found is that the Leavenworth is probably not the fort in Kansas, but rather a Lieutenant M. H. Leavenworth, 6th Cavalry.

********

Here are some publications that I pulled from the University of Michigan library catalogue and a few good biblios that might be of help to you:

Mehren, Lawrence Lindsay. “A History of the Mescalero Apache Reservation, 1869-1881. MA thesis, University of Arizona, 1968

Opler, Morris E. and Catherine H. Opler, “Mescalero Apache History in the Southwest,” New Mexico Historical Review 25 1 (January 1950), 20-21.

Oliva, Leo. Fort Union and the Frontier Army in the Southwest (Santa Fe: National Park Service, 1993)

The Handbook of North American Indians: Southwest V
10. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1983.

Thomas, Alfred . The Mescalero Apache, 1653-1874, Apache Indians XI. NY: Garland Publishing, Inc.: 1974.

Twitchell, Ralph E. Leading Facts of New Mexican History vol 2. Cedar Rapids, IA: Torch Press, 1911.

Gregg, Andy. Drums of Yesterday: The Forts of New Mexico. Santa Fe: The Press of the Territorian, 1968.

Other resources:

(I tried the New Mexico Archives, but their website seems to be down for the holiday…but I found an alternate access to their records through the University of New Mexico website)

http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231973-019/
http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231973-019/

http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231974-019/
http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231974-019/

http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231972-006/
http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231972-006/

http://elibrary.unm.edu/oanm/NmAr/nmar%231974-033/

From there, I’d probably turn next to the New Mexico Historian, http://www.newmexicohistory.org/history.html

Southwest Cultural Resources Center (don’t let its major emphasis shake you…they’re a non-profit with a load of historical records used to prepare their think-tank papers) http://www.sric.org/

Anyway, this is maybe a place to start. If these don’t work let me know. I can go over to the Henry Ford Centennial Library and go through the military records if you need. I generally need a week to plan it out because the place is too big to just walk in and start looking…need to figure out what we need and where it is before going in there for a day.

Hope it helps…let me know if any of it works for you.

Officials familiar with the agenda of the Friday meeting said Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff, National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Peter Pace were expected to attend.

It was not immediately clear if the meeting would result in a final recommendation to Bush.

Previous plans to close Guantanamo have run into resistance from Cheney, Gonzales and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. But officials said the new suggestion is gaining momentum with at least tacit support from the State and Homeland Security departments, the Pentagon, and the Intelligence directorate.

Cheney’s office and the Justice Department have been dead set against the step, arguing that moving "unlawful" enemy combatant suspects to the U.S. would give them undeserved legal rights.

They could still block the proposal, but pressure to close Guantanamo has been building since a Supreme Court decision last year that found a previous system for prosecuting enemy combatants illegal. Recent rulings by military judges threw out charges against two terrorism suspects under a new tribunal scheme.

Those decisions have dealt a blow to the administration’s efforts to begin prosecuting dozens of Guantanamo detainees regarded as the nation’s most dangerous terror suspects.

In Congress, recently introduced legislation would require Guantanamo’s closure. One measure would designate Fort Leavenworth as the new detention facility.

Another bill would grant new rights to those held at Guantanamo Bay, including access to lawyers regardless of whether the prisoners are put on trial. Still another would allow detainees to protest their detentions in federal court, something they are now denied.

Gates, who took over the Pentagon after Rumsfeld was forced out last year, has said Congress and the administration should work together to allow the U.S. to permanently imprison some of the more dangerous Guantanamo Bay detainees elsewhere so the facility can be closed.

Military officials told Congress this month that the prison at Fort Leavenworth has 70 open beds and that the brig at a naval base in Charleston, S.C., has space for an additional 100 prisoners.

The Guantanamo Bay prison, where some 380 alleged terrorists are now detained, has been a flash point for criticism of the Bush administration at home and abroad. It was set up in 2002 to house terror suspects captured in military operations, mostly in Afghanistan.

Because the facility is in Cuba, the administration has argued that detainees there are not covered by rights and protections afforded to those in U.S. prisons.

Human rights advocates and foreign leaders have repeatedly called for its closure, and the prison is regarded by many as proof of U.S. double standards on fundamental freedoms in the war on terrorism.

Some of the detainees come from countries that are U.S. allies, including Britain, Saudi Arabia and Australia. Each of those governments raised complaints about the conditions or duration of detentions, or about the possibility that detainees might face death sentences.

Rice has said she would like to see Guantanamo closed if a safe alternative could be found. She said during a trip to Spain this month that "the United States doesn’t have any desire to be the world’s jailer."

"I don’t think anyone wants to see Guantanamo open one day longer than it is needed. But I also suspect nobody wants to see a number of dangerous people simply released out onto the streets," she said.

On Thursday, two Democratic lawmakers, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida and Sen. Benjamin Cardin of Maryland, told a human rights commission that Guantanamo must be closed if the United States is to regain credibility and authority on human rights.

"The damage done to the United States goes beyond undermining our status as a global leader on human rights," Cardin said. "Our policies and practices regarding Guantanamo and other aspects of our detainee policies have undermined our authority to engage in the effective counter-terrorism measures that are necessary for the very security of this country."

Officials say that Bush, who also has said he wants to close the facility as soon as possible, is keenly aware of its shortcomings.

His wife, Laura, and mother, Barbara, along with Rice and longtime adviser Karen Hughes, head of the public diplomacy office at the State Department, have told him that Guantanamo is a blot on the U.S. record abroad, particularly in the Muslim world and among European allies.

Bush has said the United States first has to determine what to do with the detainees there. The administration says some countries have refused to accept terror suspects from their territory.

Earlier this month, former Secretary of State Colin Powell called for the immediate closure of the prison, saying it posed an untenable foreign policy risk and was irreparably harming the U.S. image abroad.

No, but hopefully they’ll close Gitmo anyway. If they’re so sure they’re terrorists, then it’ll be no problem convicting them and throwing away the key.

And honey, that’s way too long – you need to link.