Death Records Now

I’ve been helping a relative do some research on his family, and wee have a recording someone in his family did where his Grandmother describes having been married 4 different times between 1917-1960. Thing is, we can’t find a single marriage record for the woman. Not in any of the Indiana counties that she lived in during that period, or in St. Louis, MO where she claims on the recording that at least 3 of the marriages took place.

We have located the birth records for the children that she had with the first 2 husbands, (showing they were just barely legitimate) and census records showing her last name as having been changed to the 3rd husband’s name, plus her SS death record where she has husband #4’s last name (plus she’s buried with him)

At the time that the recording was made, I don’t think anyone believed there was any reason to question her version of events, or would have even if they thought of it. Now, many years later it is a matter of curiosity for the family and no one is left alive to really get upset about whether she was telling the truth or not.

My question is this: Is there a likely database or location where these marriage records may be stored that I’m missing? i can understand not being able to find a record of her last marriage, since neither Indiana or Illinois publishes the records for marriages that took place in the 50’s and 60’s. Plus that one some people actually remember seeing take place, so there’s no doubt it occurred. The first three marriages though we ought to be able to find, right? Is this something even worth chasing, or does it sound like maybe the marriages never actually took place?

I’m just trying to make sure that I’m not missing a resource, I’d hate to make a long trip trying to track this down in MO if the woman was simply engaging in a little revisionist’s history while she delivered her memoirs.
Shenaya- sorry, I failed to mention that she gave specific dates for the first two marriages (and divorces) and a year for the 3rd marriage and divorce. Going off of census records, draft cards and city directories in addition to the birth records of the children that she had with husbands 1 and 2, and a picture that was found of husband 3, I am certain she did in fact have relationships with all 3 men. I just haven’t been able to find any marriage records. Husband 1 married someone else shortly after she is supposed to have divorced him, husband 2 was married to someone else briefly a few years before she married him (this is the recollection of a 93 yr old niece of his) but I don’t have anything to tell me whether he was widowed, divorced or separated, and 3 was described as a playboy of sorts, I know he had a wife 3 years prior to when she would have married him, and I can’t be sure a divorce ever took place their either.
Joyce- I’m not used to giving personal info on YA, even when it isn’t mine. Sorry. The people and relevant dates in question are:

Lydia May Nolan
married James B Weir of Fountain Co IN sometime in 1916. Location unknown. Divorced 1-5-1917.
married Horace Sterling Zick of Fountain Co IN on 12-24-1918 in St Louis MO, divorced by 1922
married Thomas Larimore of Pekin, Tazewell, IL sometime in 1922 in St Louis MO, divorced 1923

Yes, I am on ancestry.com I’ve got records on these people out the wazoo, just none to explain whether all the bed hopping was done with the proper paperwork having been filed.
Maxi- actually when i started working on this (for my 3rd cousin) I had absolutely nothing but 2 iffy names and a location. My great aunt sent him to me because he wanted to find out about his father’s family and I am the only person in our family who is both interested in genealogy and familiar with the computer. His whole problem was that that side of his family was never an acceptable topic of conversation while his father was alive. So I started digging and finding records, starting with his dad and then good old grandma, then a birth record, then another birth record for another kid with a different guy. I must have 200 emails back and forth from me finding a record or having an idea and him digging up a piece of information from someone to corroborate it. I have enough records that I can put together a reasonable chronology for everyone involved, but to me, considering the time period, all the brief marriages and quick divorces that were supposedly taking place just in time

If you don’t provide names, all we can do is give generic answers. She could have been playing fast and loose with the truth, or the records simply aren’t online yet. Have you contacted the state vital records office requesting a copy of the marriage certificates? Are you using ancestry.com for your search?

http://health.mo.gov/data/vitalrecords/

I’m trying to find out information on my grandmother.she was born in michigan and also died in michigan.in 1965.i’m doing a family tree with ancestry.com and i’m stuck.i need some where to look up free vital record.

Yo could try www.findagrave.com
too. The best entries have a copy of the obit, a couple of memories by family members and links to spouses, children and parents. Not all of the entries have them, of course.

If she died in 1965, she was probably born before 1930. She could have been married with 3 kids in 1930. If you post a new question with her name, birth year and children alive before 1930, one of us may look her up on the census for you. There is a 10% chance one of the people living with her family will be an aged parent.

I Have been searching for my birth mother for several years now. I am 29 Years old and I am a mother of three amazing boys who don’t know there own grandmother . I have an older brother who really is not interested in finding her. I found out last year on Christmas Eve that I had a sister same birth mom. She was adopted and she new about my brother and I all her life. I met her for the first time last year on New Years. It was so awesome getting to know her I never had a sister I never new about her which makes me sad. My mother’s name is Martha Ann McGraw her D.O.B. IS 1-1-1959 her last known where about was in Mesquite Texas in 2002. She has no record after 2002. She is not in any death records in Texas. She hasn’t been remarried as far as know. I tried every agency. Most of them are way tooooooooo exspensive. It is an endless search . Does anyone have any ideas for me on my journy to search for my long lost Birth Mother ? NO ON IN MY ENTIRE FAMILY IS HELPING ME NOR KNOW WHERE SHE COULD BE THEY GAVE UP. I will never give up my search for my mother. PLEASE HELP SOMEONE!!!

ancestry.com is sometimes useful. Try searching local town databses, like the tax assessor’s office database, in nearby towns to where you think she may be. If she owns a home/property you may find luck. Those databases are open to the public (a few towns may charge small fee to access), but they will not show up on a google search.

This can be a tough thing. Do you make yourself searchable on the internet? If you maintain a public page for yourself, you will make it easy for her to find you, if she’s looking.

Keep searching, the internet is a valuable tool. Use different search engines, yahoo, ask.com, etc …. sometimes they come up with different results.

As my grandmother used to say,"they are few and far between," but a few do exist. On the FamilySearch.org pilot site they have a few. I know they have some Texas death certificates. http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start

Also, the state of Missouri has a wonderful website that includes:
Missouri Birth and Death Database pre 1910
Missouri Death Certificates 1910-1958
http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/birthdeath/

Georgia’s Virtual Vault has a database of Death Certificates for 1919-1927. http://content.sos.state.ga.us/cdm4/gadeaths.php

So, if I were in need of a marriage or death certificate, I would always check any websites for the state that would have issued the certificate.

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#searchId=112849134813955540000;surname=Madigan;birthPlaceId=1;birthPlace=United%20States;givenName=John;searchType=standard;birthYear=1880;p=recordResults

Do you think this could be my great-grandfather? My grandfather Thomas Madigan was born on February 24, 1919 in Brooklyn, NY. He was the tenth of ten children, so it’s possible his father could have been 39 years old when having him. His wife (my grandmother) was also born in 1919 in Brooklyn, NY. She was the seventh of seven children, as her father was was born in 1880. On this link, it says John Madigan (the name of my great-grandfather), was born in May 1880, so it’s in the same time frame. The key though is that it says in the 1900 U.S. Census that he was residing in Brooklyn (Kings). This would have been two years after Brooklyn was consolidated into New York City.

I know for certain that my grandfather’s parents were born in the United States, although I’m unsure of where. It’s possible it could be in New York, but it’s possible it may not be. I’m unsure of where his grandparents were born, but I know he was of Irish descent. His grandparents may have been Irish immigrants. In this link, it says John Madigan’s parents were born in Ireland. On this link, it says that John Madigan was born in Boston, but I don’t know if that means in Massachusetts. My grandmother told me that John Madigan died at 69 years old, which she remembered, because my grandfather (Thomas Madigan) ironically also died at 69. I’ll ask my grandmother if she knows when he was born (if it was May 1880). Or if she knows what year he died (I can track 69 years before that). When it says Boston, I don’t know if that means in Massachusetts, because it doesn’t say so. There is a Boston in the state of New York.

On this site, and on Ancestry.com, this is the only John Madigan I’ve been able to find that resided in Brooklyn, Kings, New York, in the 1900 Census. This is also the only John Madigan I’ve found that has resided in Brooklyn, that was born around 1880. There were some in Manhattan that could have matched too, but this was the only one I found in Brooklyn. If there’s any help anyone could provide, I appreciate it. What I’m looking for is more information on this exact John Madigan. Like who his parents or siblings may have been. I’m also seeing if there’s a death record that may be on a John Madigan in 1949-1950 in Brooklyn, New York. I know there was a Census picture document to go along with it, but I was having trouble making out the writing on it. Maybe you’ll have better luck. Also, I’ve found a marriage record on a site to a Margaret Finley (or Findley) on July 24, 1898 in Manhattan, New York. Margaret Finley was his wife. It’s possible he could have gotten married at 18 years old, although I don’t know there.
It’s the third one on the page.
On the Family Search site, if it doesn’t work when you click on it, if you search John Madigan ”Birth/Christening” United States, you’ll see John Madigan come up third.

I’ll look in that New York Times article you posted. That sounds like it could be in the right neighborhood. If he died on Feb. 22, 1951, and he was born in May 1880, it wouldn’t have meant he would have died at 70 years old, which is only a year above the age my grandmother said he died at. If he died in May 3 1951, it’s possible he could have been 71 years old when he died, if this matches, but in the 1880 link it only says he was born in May. He probably would have been born after the 3rd in May, since there’s obviously 28 other days in May.
Hi Wendy. It’s coming along alright. Still gathering little bits of information. I’m not sure if they were married in 1898, but you’re right that if they were, it would contradict it. It’d possible there could have been another marriage of John Madigan and Margaret Finley, in a largely populated city, because they’re somewhat of common names. That marriage wasn’t in Brooklyn, NY though. It was in Manhattan, which leaves me skeptical. I’m unsure of what the exact date of the consolodation of Brooklyn into New York City was in 1898, but I’d imagine if it wasn’t apart of their city at the same, they may have not wanted to get married there. Plus, as I’ve mentioned, my grandfather grew up somewhat poor. Manhattan, for things like marriages, has historically tended to be expensive, so I don’t know if they would have been able to afford getting married there.
How exactly do I get down to that article on the New York Times page? I know I should go to the 1851-1980 tab? But I looked on page 28-29 and didn’t find it.
http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?frow=0&n=10&srcht=s&daterange=period&query=John+Madigan&srchst=p&hdlquery=&bylquery=&mon1=02&day1=22&year1=1951&mon2=05&day2=03&year2=1951&submit.x=31&submit.y=12

I found it in the search engine in those dates you showed me. I’d imagine it’s possible it could be a duplicate article on the same person because both have the middle initial J. This could be the person I’m looking for though. It says it cost $3.95 to order it, which the price obviously isn’t a big deal, but I don’t have a credit card. But I’ll ask my brother.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoXtTPnNgILLLhSAqwufbpnsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090305004625AApnQBo

I believe it was this answer you were referring too. This has John Madigan being born in May 1881, meaning that if he died in either February or May 1951, he would have been 69 years old when dying, as my grandmother indicated.
I’m not sure if that was the answer, as it was for the 1900 Census, but it could be correct. The only thing that could be off is that it says he lived in Queens, New York in 1900, but it’s possible that he may have moved to Brooklyn, when moving out, prior to my grandfather’s birth in 1919. My grandfather was from the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn, which actually isn’t that far from Queens or Manhattan. It had him listed as living at home in 1900, when he would have been either 18 or 19 years old.
Woop that was the wrong side lol I believe that is true on the Clark side though.
Yes, the information provided on that link is correct, as all the names of the children match up identically. It’s gradually added to appropriately in the 1920 and 1930 Censuses. The only confusion I had there was that it said this:

”John Madigan 34 Married 14 years Parents Ire English”

I looked up where ”Brooklyn Ward 14” was though, and it said East Williamsburg, which is likely where my great-grandfather lived in 1910, since my grandfather was born there in 1919.

Yet it said above:

”Father’s Birth Place: Ireland
Mother’s Birth Place: Ireland”
If he were born in 1876, it’d mean he probably would have died 1945-46.
Yeah, this could be it. The 4th one shown shows Margaret Madigan dying on April 23, 1922, at 44 years old.
http://www.italiangen.org/NYCDeathresults.asp?kind=exact&Esurname=Madigan&Efirst=Margaret&StartYear=&EndYear=1922&County=Kings&B1=Submit

was wondering how you were coming along, Tom…
I pulled up the John Madigan in 1900, born May 1880. This John is single, and living with his widowed father. No wife. If John and Margaret were married in 1898, this contradicts it.
An 1898 marriage to Margaret is just about right. Meaning, they were married 21 yrs in 1919.. and like many persons in that day.. the standard is a child every other year.
By the way.. I love that site. Experience helps to read the stuff. Look at the top, and you can save it as a jpeg to your computer. Also.. look to the side of the "save file" thingie, and there is a slider bar which allows you to zoom on the image. The drawback is not having 1910, 1920, 1930 so you can check all three.
You also are hitting a certain time frame that is real tricky. I call it the 1890 "hump", where the 1890 is gone to a fire. Children born in 1880 or so, are often married by 1900, which means that 20 yr gap will leave them out of any census with the parents. The exception, if they do NOT marry by 1900, or..sometimes you luck out, and the parent now lives with the children.
edit
Tom.. go back to the 1910 census summary that tukmyhamster sent you, a few days ago.
It gives John’s age 34 (born about 1876); married 14 yrs (about 1896) and check closely on the ages of the kids.
1880 is not the right guy.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090228005522AAzRM2R
there is a discrepancy on John’s age between the two census.. so there is a range to be looking at.
ONE of these (full copy) would include the month/year of birth,
one claims father born Ireland, mother born England..

tom, your email is not open to send things after you may have stopped reading.
http://www.italiangen.org/NYCDeathSearch.asp
run Margaret Madigan through this with Kings as location, and I think I find her death date in 1922.

I had asked this question a few days ago:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ap_TSB9DpPUGSXtoVGoyo3_sy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080111174052AAWAZYi

I have since noted a few mistakes in what I had said.

1) I can’t figure out who he was because I can’t figure out what his last name was. I ca find his wife without a problem because she died later and everyone had her death information.
2) I can’t seem to find anyone on the Ellis Island record site, and I’m not familiar with any research libraries locally (though I’m sure there must be one. I live in Los Angeles. It’s more an issue of being able to get to one that isn’t an hour away).
3) Nobody remembers him because the oldest members of the family were too young when he died to remember (and the eldest had moved to California shortly before the death and remembers very little).

My question is this: how can I find what his last name was with the little information that I have?

Thank you all so much. You have been so helpful already
I know exactly when and where she died, but I have no record of her death, other than the fact that my grandmother wrote it down in a book.

Drop me a note through my profile and I’ll do my best to help you find his name. There are a lot of questions to ask you that are hard to fit on this one screen, but it has to do with where they lived before he moved and what everyone else’s names were. We can narrow it down with census, voter registration, land records, etc. Then we can refine it with marriage, death and birth records, and especially with church records if they were Christian. The good news is that our ancestors never go anywhere. The bad news is that some did a better job and hiding themselves than did others. But as long as he didn’t live between 1800-1868, we should be able to find him pretty quickly.

My Grandmother died in 1949 in Los Angeles California. I looked on the California and Los Angeles County records website to see if I can order her Death Certificate as part of a geneology project but it says 1995 to present deaths only. I went to rootsweb and got her SSN#, but not sure if its correct. Where else can I look?

This link is to the California Death Index. Enter her first name, her married surname and the death year. The results should give you her date of birth/death, her maiden name and her mother’s maiden name http://vitals.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ca/death/search.cgi

For death certificates, you find more information about how to order copies for deaths between 1905 – present at this link http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Pages/default.aspx

These records would be very helpful to me because I will be getting genetic testing done in the future, and it helps to have detailed family medical history. She died very quickly of a fast moving cancer, and recently my dad- her son- also died of a fast moving cancer. I am concerned for my own health because this happened in both generations, and I take after that side. I am getting my dad’s medical records now. The problems are that I was not the executor of my grandmother, my uncle was, and he is also passed on. In short, I am the only living decendant of my grandmother. Plus, she died in 1984 and she was in New York and I live in another state. I do have her death certificate (which doesn’t include a space for a cause of death, oddly enough, though she was diagnosed), I know which hospital she was in (NYU) and when and for how long. I know she was diagnosed with a specific cancer, but I don’t know the name. I don’t mind paying a fee for the records, I just need them.

You may have to get an attorney to help you get them. Or may your doctor would help out, I really don’t know. You do need the records for yourself, I’m sure it would give your doctors some insight into what could potentially happen.

My grandmother’s name was Patricia J. Donahue (Stein). She died in August of 1990 in Florida and that is all I know. Can anyone help me find any records online? Links would be helpful.

A search for Patricia Donahue turned up several matches on www.rootsweb.com (URL attached). I’ve also attached a couple of other links for free searches. If she never received benefits from Social Security the chances are she will not be listed in the rootsweb database. I didn’t see an exact match for someone with her first and last name who died in 1990, but it can be quite a search. If you write to the state of Florida (see the last URL I posted) you can request a death certificate. Good luck – you’ll find her if you’re persistent.

I did a search of Hawaii records, when the issue of his citizenship first came up. It was interesting. While copies of the documents could not be obtained, there was 3 live birth, and 3 death certificates for a person with Obama’s name. I have dealt with immigration issues. Identity theft was not an offense back then. Even today, it is common if a US citizen child dies, large families with non-citizen children, relatives, or friends in the community are given permission to use the birth certificate, to gain access to our great Nation.

Is it possible that everyone is focusing on the wrong issue – instead of birth certificate, perhaps access to death certificates would be revealing. This would make both the State of Hawaii accurate in their statement that an Obama was born there, and Obama’s grandmother correct in that knowing she was present at this man’s birth. – If it is not the same person.
I do not know Obama’s nationality. It is a citizens right to know. I was thinking that maybe, if irregularities with the certificate of live birth are accurate, the issue may not be the birth, but ability to trace a death certificate to that birth.
The interesting part to me was how unusual the name is; and the matching number of death and birth certificates.

|You have the mind of a detective and I would not want to be in the position of being your enemy.

Maybe you should use your investigative skills in law enforcement.

As for your observations my thoughts are:
1. hmm no one had come up with that angle before
2. this guy is a smart cookie
3. wow, if there is such a devious way of becoming a US citizen- that is one good way. I betcha it costs a LOT of money.